From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 8 00:38:21 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: fresh ideas anyone? In-Reply-To: <20010129174536.68945.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010207133821.27222.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> hi guys, after the meeting on monday i've had a few more ideas on organise mesh networks, rather than just a mesh... it'd be nice to know whats been discussed about this but it all comes down to the time spent administrating the thing ... anyone with experience with ospf or bgp ? yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 09:35:52 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: Newbie routing Q's Message-ID: <20010208093552.16681.qmail@cassiel.com> I picked up a fair amount from the meeting on Monday, which was really my introduction to the whole Consume thing, but I'm still trying to clarify some things in my head. This is how I understand it: a consume node can do any of the following: - act as transit router between any other nodes it can reach via wireless, routing according to some chunk of reserved IP addresses; - act as a "drop point" from the consume internal addresses to some real Internet point, doing NAT translation at the boundary, allowing any or all nodes to get out onto the Net via the IP address of this connection; - act as a wireless DHCP server for any "dumb client" within range; (In this case, is the DHCP address a consume address, or something NAT'ed by the node which provides the service?) I suppose one could also add: - act as a gateway from somebody's private ethernet of machines into the consume cloud (presumably via a second level of NAT, and/or providing DHCP). In fact, a node could presumably do any combination of the above. Do I sort-of have my head around this properly? How is the routing established: is it totally static and ad-hoc, constructed by hand for a node whenever it's brought on-line? -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 8 23:05:03 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208093552.16681.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010208120503.34726.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, > This is how I understand it: a consume node can do any of the > following: > > - act as transit router between any other nodes it can reach via > wireless, routing according to some chunk of reserved IP addresses; wireless router ... > - act as a "drop point" from the consume internal addresses to some > real Internet point, doing NAT translation at the boundary, allowing > any or all nodes to get out onto the Net via the IP address of this > connection; peering router ... > - act as a wireless DHCP server for any "dumb client" within > range; (In this case, is the DHCP address a consume address, or > something NAT'ed by the node which provides the service?) client access router ... > I suppose one could also add: > > - act as a gateway from somebody's private ethernet of machines into > the consume cloud (presumably via a second level of NAT, and/or > providing DHCP). same as above ... > In fact, a node could presumably do any combination of the above. you can quie happily do all of the above with a machine that has enuf memory to handle the traffic and routing/NATing/masq tables. > Do I sort-of have my head around this properly? yep... > How is the routing established: is it totally static and ad-hoc, > constructed by hand for a node whenever it's brought on-line? at this time yes... routing information would be static. but there are a couple of other ways to do it. i would like to try an organised mesh idea that i have been throwing arround for a while... a group of nodes in an area agree to have an organised mesh, including layering of ip networks, and to use a dynamic/updating routing protocol like ospf. that gives you learning about new nodes that come and go, including dhcpd'd nodes, multipath routing and a good chance to get multicast streaming to work, VPN tunnels over (real) internet links and low routing table overhead, but higher cpu load on nominated/dedicated routing nodes. has anyone used ospf, bgp or eigrp before? yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 12:25:43 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208120503.34726.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:05:03 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010208120503.34726.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010208122543.18257.qmail@cassiel.com> > wireless router ... > peering router ... > client access router ... OK - thanks for setting me straight on the terminology...! -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 9 01:17:16 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208122543.18257.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010208141716.60653.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nick Rothwell wrote: > > wireless router ... > > peering router ... > > client access router ... > > OK - thanks for setting me straight on the terminology...! thats what i would call each of those roles that you described, there are lots of other names for them. when you combine the roles they would be different i suppose... i am working at the moment to get the lucent wireless card working under debian 2.2 (Linux), then make a installable package that could via a config script (like linuxconf) setup the interfaces and routing. another important issue is DNS, since it helps the whole process of tracking the progress of the network and helps human readability when maintaining the network ... yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From adam at algroup.co.uk Thu Feb 8 14:38:06 2001 From: adam at algroup.co.uk (Adam Laurie) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... References: <20010208141716.60653.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A82AF4E.205F53F1@algroup.co.uk> Kim Hawtin wrote: > > --- Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > wireless router ... > > > peering router ... > > > client access router ... > > > > OK - thanks for setting me straight on the terminology...! > > thats what i would call each of those roles that you described, > there are lots of other names for them. when you combine the > roles they would be different i suppose... > > i am working at the moment to get the lucent wireless card working > under debian 2.2 (Linux), then make a installable package that could > via a config script (like linuxconf) setup the interfaces and routing. > > another important issue is DNS, since it helps the whole process of > tracking the progress of the network and helps human readability when > maintaining the network ... steve tells me he's committed his linux howto to the cvs repository - in doing so he noticed that i'd missed a startup script... i'll commit it when i get home to my (currently borked) node... cheers, Adam -- Adam Laurie Tel: +44 (20) 8742 0755 A.L. Digital Ltd. Fax: +44 (20) 8742 5995 Voysey House http://www.thebunker.net Barley Mow Passage http://www.aldigital.co.uk London W4 4GB mailto:adam@algroup.co.uk UNITED KINGDOM PGP key on keyservers From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 9 02:15:47 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <3A82AF4E.205F53F1@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010208151547.92318.qmail@web10204.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adam Laurie wrote: > Kim Hawtin wrote: > steve tells me he's committed his linux howto to the cvs repository - in > doing so he noticed that i'd missed a startup script... i'll commit it > when i get home to my (currently borked) node... i'd like to play with some of 2.4.x kernels advanced routing stuff, and netfilter ... is steve using 2.4.x or 2.2.x ? errr ... the /software folder is broken on the web server again ... yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 16:25:12 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208141716.60653.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:17:16 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010208141716.60653.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010208162512.20133.qmail@cassiel.com> > i am working at the moment to get the lucent wireless card working > under debian 2.2 (Linux), then make a installable package that could > via a config script (like linuxconf) setup the interfaces and > routing. Sounds good, although I'm used to loading modules and doing all this dirty stuff by hand... > another important issue is DNS, since it helps the whole process of > tracking the progress of the network and helps human readability when > maintaining the network ... Is there a consume node DNS running? (In fact, are there any services over and above packet routing and masquerading at the peer routers?) -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From woody at thebunker.net Thu Feb 8 16:30:13 2001 From: woody at thebunker.net (woody) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... References: <20010208141716.60653.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> <20010208162512.20133.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <3A82C995.81A40AF1@thebunker.net> Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > i am working at the moment to get the lucent wireless card working > > under debian 2.2 (Linux), then make a installable package that could > > via a config script (like linuxconf) setup the interfaces and > > routing. > > Sounds good, although I'm used to loading modules and doing all this > dirty stuff by hand... > > > another important issue is DNS, since it helps the whole process of > > tracking the progress of the network and helps human readability when > > maintaining the network ... > > Is there a consume node DNS running? (In fact, are there any services > over and above packet routing and masquerading at the peer routers?) at my node i personally run squid, a web server about the node, and dns. hopefully moving to an ad blocking apache proxy. w. From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 16:38:40 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208151547.92318.qmail@web10204.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:15:47 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010208151547.92318.qmail@web10204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010208163840.20245.qmail@cassiel.com> > i'd like to play with some of 2.4.x kernels advanced routing stuff, > and netfilter ... is steve using 2.4.x or 2.2.x ? That's why I was thinking of moving to 2.4 - netfilter, and (allegedly) a cleaner TCP/IP stack. > errr ... the /software folder is broken on the web server again ... So's the link to the pico peering agreement... -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 9 04:31:23 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <3A82C995.81A40AF1@thebunker.net> Message-ID: <20010208173123.33867.qmail@web10207.mail.yahoo.com> --- woody wrote: > Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > i am working at the moment to get the lucent wireless card working > > > under debian 2.2 (Linux), then make a installable package that could > > > via a config script (like linuxconf) setup the interfaces and > > > routing. > > Sounds good, although I'm used to loading modules and doing all this > > dirty stuff by hand... um ... its a lot nicer if you reboot the thing and it goes ... > > > another important issue is DNS, since it helps the whole process of > > > tracking the progress of the network and helps human readability when > > > maintaining the network ... > at my node i personally run squid, a web server about the node, and dns. > hopefully moving to an ad blocking apache proxy. for a ad blocker you could use squidGuard ... a real DNS cache for the real internet is a good idea. at the studio i run a "fake" DNS server for the internal private networks, only visable internally on a fake domain, it just helps to have a DNS because theres a heap of services that rely on a DNS to do gethostbyname() lookups. but a real sub-domain based on consume.net might be a better idea, theres a lot that could be done with it... nodes that peer to the internet, should run secondary, if not master DNS servers of sub-domains for that node. makes access across into the consume network from the internet easier. yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From adam at algroup.co.uk Thu Feb 8 17:36:54 2001 From: adam at algroup.co.uk (Adam Laurie) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... References: <20010208151547.92318.qmail@web10204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A82D936.98BCFE34@algroup.co.uk> Kim Hawtin wrote: > > --- Adam Laurie wrote: > Kim Hawtin wrote: > > > steve tells me he's committed his linux howto to the cvs repository - in > > doing so he noticed that i'd missed a startup script... i'll commit it > > when i get home to my (currently borked) node... > > i'd like to play with some of 2.4.x kernels advanced routing stuff, > and netfilter ... is steve using 2.4.x or 2.2.x ? > > errr ... the /software folder is broken on the web server again ... not for me... however, it does get updated every five minutes so i guess it may appear broken if you happen to hit in the middle of an update... maybe i'll tweak it to only do software a few times a day... cheers, Adam -- Adam Laurie Tel: +44 (20) 8742 0755 A.L. Digital Ltd. Fax: +44 (20) 8742 5995 Voysey House http://www.thebunker.net Barley Mow Passage http://www.aldigital.co.uk London W4 4GB mailto:adam@algroup.co.uk UNITED KINGDOM PGP key on keyservers From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 17:39:18 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208173123.33867.qmail@web10207.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Fri, 9 Feb 2001 04:31:23 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010208173123.33867.qmail@web10207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010208173918.805.qmail@cassiel.com> > > > Sounds good, although I'm used to loading modules and doing all this > > > dirty stuff by hand... > > um ... its a lot nicer if you reboot the thing and it goes ... That's what I mean - bunging the ether driver aliases in conf.modules, routing stuff in /etc/sysconfig and so on. > but a real sub-domain based on consume.net might be a better idea, > theres a lot that could be done with it... I agree. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 9 05:08:34 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208173918.805.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010208180834.51295.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > > Sounds good, although I'm used to loading modules > > > > and doing all this dirty stuff by hand... > > > > um ... its a lot nicer if you reboot the thing and it goes ... > > That's what I mean - bunging the ether driver aliases in conf.modules, > routing stuff in /etc/sysconfig and so on. ok, would a redhat package be preferred ... or debian or ... i'm open to suggestions here ... im just playing with debian because i have a laptop with no cdrom and no network adapter. im keen to do rehat 7.0 on the desktop i have too... > > but a real sub-domain based on consume.net might be a better idea, > > theres a lot that could be done with it... > > I agree. cool, any other suggestions? - DNS - Apache (or another lite version of httpd) - squid + squidGuard (100MB cache) - gated or zebra - netfiler? - wireless driver (of course) - mail (not my speciallity, any help welcome) debian 2.2 ~300 MB total, redhat 7.0 ~500 Mb total. (i've not played with SUSE or slackware recently, size ???) yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From nick at cassiel.com Thu Feb 8 18:31:30 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's... In-Reply-To: <20010208180834.51295.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:08:34 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010208180834.51295.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010208183130.1706.qmail@cassiel.com> > ok, would a redhat package be preferred ... or debian or ... I've played around a bit with scripting Red Hat RPM's but don't remember much about it. > - Apache (or another lite version of httpd) Also, Apache could be installed at some peering point running virtual hosts, which would be a step in the direction of getting sites visible on the Net at large. > - mail (not my speciallity, any help welcome) I've done some sendmail stuff but it's heavy and complicated. My preference is qmail (http://www.qmail.org) - I've installed and configured it for a handful of sites (and currently run it on my Linux laptop) and it's small, flexible and light. There are RPM's for it but they're a little untidy. > debian 2.2 ~300 MB total, redhat 7.0 ~500 Mb total. I have a basic Red Hat 6.0 (no X11, but mail and CVS) in about 150Mb - would have to double-check. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Fri Feb 9 23:00:12 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010208183130.1706.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nick Rothwell wrote: > > ok, would a redhat package be preferred ... or debian or ... > > I've played around a bit with scripting Red Hat RPM's but don't > remember much about it. rpms are great and simple once you've figured out how the damn things work! > > - Apache (or another lite version of httpd) > > Also, Apache could be installed at some peering point running > virtual hosts, which would be a step in the direction of getting sites > visible on the Net at large. the virtual host are pretty funky! and easy to configure too =) > > - mail (not my speciallity, any help welcome) > > I've done some sendmail stuff but it's heavy and complicated. My > preference is qmail (http://www.qmail.org) - I've installed and > configured it for a handful of sites (and currently run it on my Linux > laptop) and it's small, flexible and light. There are RPM's for it but > they're a little untidy. good, especially if its lite on cpu... cool > I have a basic Red Hat 6.0 (no X11, but mail and CVS) in about 150Mb - > would have to double-check. i was thinking about 100-200MB for for the OS, 100MB for web server file space, 100MB for the web proxy cache space, 50MB for swap, plus misc other stuff ... redhat 7.0 is rather bloated but has lots of neat things in! there is the question of usenet news and irc too ... yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From nick at cassiel.com Fri Feb 9 13:21:59 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> (message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?= on Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:00:12 +1100 (EST)) References: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> > the virtual host are pretty funky! and easy to configure too =) Pretty much. You're restricting sites to browsers which talk HTTP/1.1, but that's practically everything these days. > good, especially if its lite on cpu... cool I've run qmail on a variety of boxen, including a 486, a Toshiba Libretto sub-notebook, and a Sparcstation IPX, none of which is particularly powerful by today's standards. It's running on this ThinkPad without impacting performance at all. We'd need to think about what the mail transport was going to do. At present, any node can presumably just smart-host through whatever mail relay is available to the appropriate peer node - thought would be needed as to whether this is better than allowing nodes to relay through one another. (At this stage the whole issue of what services nodes should provide, and how they're configured and kept up-to-date, rears its head.) > i was thinking about 100-200MB for for the OS, > 100MB for web server file space, > 100MB for the web proxy cache space, > 50MB for swap, > plus misc other stuff ... Sounds about right. > redhat 7.0 is rather bloated but has lots of neat things in! It's really a case of trawling through the list of installed RPM's and ripping out the junk. > there is the question of usenet news and irc too ... I've never used IRC. Usenet became essentially useless in terms of signal-to-noise several years ago IMHO. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From steve-consume at gbnet.net Fri Feb 9 13:32:58 2001 From: steve-consume at gbnet.net (Steve Kennedy) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com>; from nick@cassiel.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:21:59PM -0000 References: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010209133258.A26015@ns.gbnet.net> On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:21:59PM -0000, Nick Rothwell wrote: > I've run qmail on a variety of boxen, including a 486, a > Toshiba Libretto sub-notebook, and a Sparcstation IPX, none of which > is particularly powerful by today's standards. It's running on this > ThinkPad without impacting performance at all. Qmail's great. Running it here on a Sparc10, as long as it has enough disk space to hold its queues it's fine. It runs a lot smaller than Sendmail, and is easy to configure (once you know it's quirks). Steve -- NetTek Ltd tel +44-(0)20 7483 1169 fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 Flat 2, 43 Howitt Road, Belsize Park, London NW3 4LU mobile 07775 755503 Epage steve-pager@gbnet.net [body only] From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Sat Feb 10 01:24:37 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <20010209142437.34177.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nick Rothwell wrote: > > the virtual host are pretty funky! and easy to configure too =) > > Pretty much. You're restricting sites to browsers which talk HTTP/1.1, > but that's practically everything these days. hmmm... id forgoten about that... what httpd would you use? what clients are pre 1.1 that pple still use? > > good, especially if its lite on cpu... cool > > I've run qmail on a variety of boxen, including a 486, a > Toshiba Libretto sub-notebook, and a Sparcstation IPX, none of which > is particularly powerful by today's standards. on average memory will play a much greater role in performance than cpu anyway since a 486 can quite happily handle 5 x 10Mbit nics and routing load, but its encrytption and security that hammers them. > We'd need to think about what the mail transport was going to do. At > present, any node can presumably just smart-host through whatever mail > relay is available to the appropriate peer node - thought would be > needed as to whether this is better than allowing nodes to relay > through one another. i would expect that nodes inside the consume net would be pointed to the nearest edge node/internet peer to which to relay the mail... > (At this stage the whole issue of what services nodes should provide, > and how they're configured and kept up-to-date, rears its head.) should there be a base minimum? especially for folks without lots of technical skills? or a build script with sensible defaults? > > i was thinking about 100-200MB for for the OS, > > 100MB for web server file space, > > 100MB for the web proxy cache space, > > 50MB for swap, > > plus misc other stuff ... > > Sounds about right. this is roughly what i was running at home in OZ on a 386 toshiba laptop with 8MB, and ~500MB hdd. it had a 56Kb modem (to ISP), 10Mb nic, 2 x 115200 serial ppp connections ... =) routing, web proxy, fetchmail, DNS ... > > redhat 7.0 is rather bloated but has lots of neat things in! > > It's really a case of trawling through the list of installed RPM's and > ripping out the junk. i just wish it had proper pcmcia support for laptops with cdroms ... =( > > there is the question of usenet news and irc too ... > > I've never used IRC. it has been useful from time to time =) ive used it as a helpdesk oper etc... > Usenet became essentially useless in terms of > signal-to-noise several years ago IMHO. all too true =( yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From stephen at netality.com Fri Feb 9 16:24:47 2001 From: stephen at netality.com (Stephen Summerfield) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Rothwell [mailto:nick@cassiel.com] > Sent: 09 February 2001 13:22 > To: consume-routing@lists.consume.net > Subject: Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... > > > > the virtual host are pretty funky! and easy to configure too =) > > Pretty much. You're restricting sites to browsers which talk HTTP/1.1, > but that's practically everything these days. If you have spare IP addresses to play with you can always use hardware virtual servers - ie 1 IP address per server - this doesn't rely on clients using HTTP1.1 - you assign multiple IP addresses to the same NIC. Configuration in Apache is only subtly different either way. S From nick at cassiel.com Fri Feb 9 16:39:53 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010209163953.24182.qmail@cassiel.com> > If you have spare IP addresses to play with you can always use hardware > virtual servers - ie 1 IP address per server Sure, but it means maintaining a collection of spare IP addresses, and these are becoming hard to find... -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From gary at sportev.com Fri Feb 9 17:03:44 2001 From: gary at sportev.com (Gary Law) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010209163953.24182.qmail@cassiel.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> At 16:39 09/02/2001, you wrote: > > If you have spare IP addresses to play with you can always use hardware > > virtual servers - ie 1 IP address per server > >Sure, but it means maintaining a collection of spare IP addresses, >and these are becoming hard to find... a more elegant solution if you *insist* on supporting old browsers is to have a default (ip based, not virtual site) page which has a list of the web sites on the server on it. The links on this page then take you to the pages via the root of the web server... provided all the links on the web sites are off-server or relative, it gives 1.0 browsers access. You can do a similar trick with cookies i think. it is traditional to add a 'why don't you upgrade your browser' link on these pages. However IMHO there are no v.1 browsers out there anymore and this simply isn't worth the effort. I've not installed the BSD or linux packages made up by Adam/Steve, but can anyone tell me if they include any traffic shaping/prioritisation? and if yes, how is it done? if 'no', does anyone know of any good BSD compatible software which can control bandwidth, prioritise traffic and so on? And do the packages include Zebra (a GNU BGP tool)? I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and FreeservePlus here at work... does anyone have any recommendations for a provider? A cheap ethernet option would be ideal... failing that maybe HomeChoice's serial connection. Thanks Gary >-- Gary Law, Systems Administrator, Sportev Ltd 39 - 43 Brewer St, W1R 3FD tel: +44 20 7734 3511 fax: +44 20 7287 0773 gary@sportev.com From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Sat Feb 10 04:31:50 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <20010209173150.66602.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Law wrote: > At 16:39 09/02/2001, you wrote: > However IMHO there are no v.1 browsers out there anymore and this simply > isn't worth the effort. ok then, i wont worry about it, if it becomes an issue, we can provide a root page and parrallel versions for 1.0 & 1.1 ... > I've not installed the BSD or linux packages made up by Adam/Steve, but > can anyone tell me if they include any traffic shaping/prioritisation? i browsed thru the linux one, didn't see it (desnt mean its not there) have not checked the bsd scripts > and if yes, how is it done? =) > if 'no', does anyone know of any good BSD compatible there is a traffic shaping module under linux called ... ummm, errr ... tql* you can do tunnels and shaping plus some other stuff too. under freebsd theres the BPF kernel stuff and there are usermode tools that do the work... its been a while =/ > And do the packages include Zebra (a GNU BGP tool)? err... its a package, install it =) i'll put it on my list =) > I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and > FreeservePlus here at work... let us know how it goes =) im movig soon and need a decent 'net connection soon too =) yours, kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment? From ben at algroup.co.uk Fri Feb 9 22:44:29 2001 From: ben at algroup.co.uk (Ben Laurie) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... References: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> <20010209133258.A26015@ns.gbnet.net> Message-ID: <3A8472CD.AE678D2A@algroup.co.uk> Steve Kennedy wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:21:59PM -0000, Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > I've run qmail on a variety of boxen, including a 486, a > > Toshiba Libretto sub-notebook, and a Sparcstation IPX, none of which > > is particularly powerful by today's standards. It's running on this > > ThinkPad without impacting performance at all. > > Qmail's great. Running it here on a Sparc10, as long as it has > enough disk space to hold its queues it's fine. qmail is _not_ great - it has weirdnesses that are hard to deal with. These days, I prefer Postfix. Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff From and-s at pacbell.net Sun Feb 11 12:22:52 2001 From: and-s at pacbell.net (and) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: 'The Routing" List format problem References: <981728679.9568.ezmlm@lists.consume.net> Message-ID: <02a101c093e2$4ceac480$1600a8c0@pacbell.net> Please excuse a stupid question, but is there a way to get the mail digest list in 'The Routing' list to act the same at the Digest list in 'The Net'? In 'The Net' it adds the mail number before an .eml surfix and it makes it much easier to open the messages on a WindoZze box. 'The Routing' list adds the message number as a surfix and it makes the OS ask for the appropriate application every time. It bugs me... Anders Smith San Francisco ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 10:24 PM Subject: consume-routing Digest 9 Feb 2001 14:24:39 -0000 Issue 26 From adam at algroup.co.uk Sat Feb 10 23:40:36 2001 From: adam at algroup.co.uk (Adam Laurie) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... References: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> <20010209133258.A26015@ns.gbnet.net> <3A8472CD.AE678D2A@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: <3A85D174.A1FB69C6@algroup.co.uk> Ben Laurie wrote: > > Steve Kennedy wrote: > > > > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:21:59PM -0000, Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > > > I've run qmail on a variety of boxen, including a 486, a > > > Toshiba Libretto sub-notebook, and a Sparcstation IPX, none of which > > > is particularly powerful by today's standards. It's running on this > > > ThinkPad without impacting performance at all. > > > > Qmail's great. Running it here on a Sparc10, as long as it has > > enough disk space to hold its queues it's fine. > > qmail is _not_ great - it has weirdnesses that are hard to deal with. > These days, I prefer Postfix. one of the main problems with qmail is that it's not actively developed. if you want to keep it up to date, you will spend the rest of your life juggling 'unofficial' patches... current version of qmail is still 1.03, which i first installed in 1998... :) cheers, Adam -- Adam Laurie Tel: +44 (20) 8742 0755 A.L. Digital Ltd. Fax: +44 (20) 8742 5995 Voysey House http://www.thebunker.net Barley Mow Passage http://www.aldigital.co.uk London W4 4GB mailto:adam@algroup.co.uk UNITED KINGDOM PGP key on keyservers From jrg at blodwen.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 11 00:00:36 2001 From: jrg at blodwen.demon.co.uk (James R Grinter) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <3A85D174.A1FB69C6@algroup.co.uk> "Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's...." (Feb 10, 23:47) Message-ID: On Sat 10 Feb, 2001, Adam Laurie wrote: >juggling 'unofficial' patches... current version of qmail is still 1.03, >which i first installed in 1998... :) Which still works. But none of this will help with wireless access... Several people have asked if anyone here has experience of routing stuff - hopefully Peter G will finish off whatever else he's up do and read some of the posts soon - or maybe you should ask the questions on consume-routing. James. From steve-consume at gbnet.net Sun Feb 11 15:21:22 2001 From: steve-consume at gbnet.net (Steve Kennedy) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <3A85D174.A1FB69C6@algroup.co.uk>; from adam@algroup.co.uk on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:40:36PM +0000 References: <20010209120012.13643.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> <20010209132159.17631.qmail@cassiel.com> <20010209133258.A26015@ns.gbnet.net> <3A8472CD.AE678D2A@algroup.co.uk> <3A85D174.A1FB69C6@algroup.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010211152122.H23015@ns.gbnet.net> On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:40:36PM +0000, Adam Laurie wrote: > one of the main problems with qmail is that it's not actively developed. > if you want to keep it up to date, you will spend the rest of your life > juggling 'unofficial' patches... current version of qmail is still 1.03, > which i first installed in 1998... :) Ahh but v2 is out r.s.n ...... Steve -- NetTek Ltd tel +44-(0)20 7483 1169 fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 Flat 2, 43 Howitt Road, Belsize Park, London NW3 4LU mobile 07775 755503 Epage steve-pager@gbnet.net [body only] From peter at wonderland.org Mon Feb 12 09:52:09 2001 From: peter at wonderland.org (Peter Galbavy) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... References: Message-ID: <02c701c094d9$7aa93ee0$77cb87d4@n3.uk.knowtion.net> Er, I have been sidetracked. I have too much consume mail to read, so I think I will be starting again with the web site and more recent mail. In theory, my node in the bottom of the valley in N3/Mill Hill is up - but not how I wuold like it to be. Back later, rgds, -- Peter Galbavy http://www.wonderland.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James R Grinter" To: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... > On Sat 10 Feb, 2001, Adam Laurie wrote: > >juggling 'unofficial' patches... current version of qmail is still 1.03, > >which i first installed in 1998... :) > > Which still works. > > But none of this will help with wireless access... > > Several people have asked if anyone here has experience of routing > stuff - hopefully Peter G will finish off whatever else he's > up do and read some of the posts soon - or maybe you should ask > the questions on consume-routing. > > James. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: consume-routing-unsubscribe@lists.consume.net > For additional commands, e-mail: consume-routing-help@lists.consume.net > > From Ian.Gilbert at global-crossing.co.uk Mon Feb 12 10:41:03 2001 From: Ian.Gilbert at global-crossing.co.uk (Gilbert, Ian) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... Message-ID: <0BD5EC7B0A37D41188D90008C7842B92F93424@SERVIA> Does anyone know if it is possible for me to use my node as a fixed IP address? What I mean is I'd like to run servers etc., from my location but don't want to use an adsl connection to do this and I'd prefer to connect to them wirelessly. I was talking to James about this on Friday night but cannot remember what we concluded (and the technicalities of how it might be accomplished). Cheers Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Rothwell [SMTP:nick@cassiel.com] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:40 PM > To: consume-routing@lists.consume.net > Subject: Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... > > > If you have spare IP addresses to play with you can always use hardware > > virtual servers - ie 1 IP address per server > > Sure, but it means maintaining a collection of spare IP addresses, > and these are becoming hard to find... > > -- > > Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited > nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com > systems - composition - installation - performance From nick at cassiel.com Mon Feb 12 12:49:30 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> (message from Gary Law on Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:03:44 +0000) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <20010212124930.30327.qmail@cassiel.com> > However IMHO there are no v.1 browsers out there anymore and this simply > isn't worth the effort. Agreed. > I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and > FreeservePlus here at work... does anyone have any recommendations for a > provider? A cheap ethernet option would be ideal... failing that maybe > HomeChoice's serial connection. The only one I'd really consider (possibly out of ignorance) is the Demon business one (£100 p.m.), since it allows incoming connections to static IP's. I'd like to hear about alternatives as well. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From nick at cassiel.com Mon Feb 12 12:59:03 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: (jrg@blodwen.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <20010212125903.30396.qmail@cassiel.com> > Several people have asked if anyone here has experience of routing > stuff - hopefully Peter G will finish off whatever else he's > up do and read some of the posts soon - or maybe you should ask > the questions on consume-routing. I've built routers and gateways at various times, although I'm a little rusty. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From nick at cassiel.com Mon Feb 12 13:05:47 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <0BD5EC7B0A37D41188D90008C7842B92F93424@SERVIA> (Ian.Gilbert@global-crossing.co.uk) References: <0BD5EC7B0A37D41188D90008C7842B92F93424@SERVIA> Message-ID: <20010212130547.30506.qmail@cassiel.com> > Does anyone know if it is possible for me to use my node as a fixed IP > address? My newbie-ish understanding is that you can't: any bits of Consume which have access to the Internet at large via peering points have gone through NAT translation. > > Sure, but it means maintaining a collection of spare IP addresses, > > and these are becoming hard to find... What I was wondering about when I made this comment is that there might be a way of gatewaying services on the Internet by having a peering router with a fixed IP, which does address translation inwards (acts as a proxying gateway), allowing bits of Consume to be reached from the outside world on a service-by-service basis. I don't know whether it would be worth the effort or added complexity though. -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From peter at wonderland.org Mon Feb 12 13:15:44 2001 From: peter at wonderland.org (Peter Galbavy) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> <20010212124930.30327.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <04f801c094f5$eb646ee0$77cb87d4@n3.uk.knowtion.net> Erm, all *business* ADSL services will allow incoming connections and provide a static IP space. Else how could they call them "business" class ? Personal recommentdation, after many installs, is EasyDSL from Easynet. rgds. -- Peter Galbavy http://www.wonderland.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Rothwell" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... > > However IMHO there are no v.1 browsers out there anymore and this simply > > isn't worth the effort. > > Agreed. > > > I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and > > FreeservePlus here at work... does anyone have any recommendations for a > > provider? A cheap ethernet option would be ideal... failing that maybe > > HomeChoice's serial connection. > > The only one I'd really consider (possibly out of ignorance) is the > Demon business one (?100 p.m.), since it allows incoming connections > to static IP's. I'd like to hear about alternatives as well. > > -- > > Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited > nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com > systems - composition - installation - performance > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: consume-routing-unsubscribe@lists.consume.net > For additional commands, e-mail: consume-routing-help@lists.consume.net > > From stephen at netality.com Mon Feb 12 13:15:51 2001 From: stephen at netality.com (Stephen Summerfield) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... In-Reply-To: <20010212124930.30327.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Rothwell [mailto:nick@cassiel.com] > Sent: 12 February 2001 12:50 > To: consume-routing@lists.consume.net > Subject: Re: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... > > > I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and > > FreeservePlus here at work... does anyone have any > recommendations for a > > provider? A cheap ethernet option would be ideal... failing that maybe > > HomeChoice's serial connection. > > The only one I'd really consider (possibly out of ignorance) is the > Demon business one (?100 p.m.), since it allows incoming connections > to static IP's. I'd like to hear about alternatives as well. If you haven't seen it already this site is quite useful, there's a comparison table on there, of ISPs offering ADSL: http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ Btw I think you'll find many ISPs (not OpenWorld though) offering routed/static IPs. Some even offer static IPs on the USB version (A&A) but then your're stuck with Windoze. AFAIK you'd need to go for the non-NAT version as I don't think the NAT'd version lets you setup any kind of port forwarding. S From malcolm at kyzo.com Mon Feb 12 15:44:20 2001 From: malcolm at kyzo.com (Malcolm Cartledge) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] Newbie routing Q's.... References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010209165011.00ad4d90@192.168.0.1> <20010212124930.30327.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: <3A8804D4.B9727FF2@kyzo.com> Nick Rothwell wrote: > > > However IMHO there are no v.1 browsers out there anymore and this simply > > isn't worth the effort. > > Agreed. > > > I'll be ordering ADSL in the next few weeks. We have both BTOW and > > FreeservePlus here at work... does anyone have any recommendations for a > > provider? A cheap ethernet option would be ideal... failing that maybe > > HomeChoice's serial connection. > > The only one I'd really consider (possibly out of ignorance) is the > Demon business one (?100 p.m.), since it allows incoming connections > to static IP's. > I'd like to hear about alternatives as well. We have chosen Easynet's 2Mbit service because 1) it was reasonably low cost (?119 for 2048K contended 50:1 = 41K vs Demon at ?95 for 512K contended 20:1 = 25K), 2) because they seem to know what they are talking about and 3) because delivery is quite quick. -- Malcolm Cartledge KYZO Ltd . Little Streams . The Abbotsbrook . Bourne End . SL8 5QY . UK Tel: +44-(0)1628-526886 . Fax: +44-(0)1628-526030 . http://www.kyzo.com From gary at sportev.com Mon Feb 12 16:44:30 2001 From: gary at sportev.com (Gary Law) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: <0BD5EC7B0A37D41188D90008C7842B92F93424@SERVIA> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> just stumbled across this: http://www.smaller-bills.co.uk/xDSL/applicationForm.html apart from the worst website in the world, anyone ever heard of them? Offering a COM port connection (like Homechoice - good for non-windows intel ppl) but no technical details at all... (eg is it NATed? if yes, for me, it's useless..) Asuming I don't go with the above, I'm going to need a Win98 machine to manage the USB bit -- I cannot justify the extra ?50/month for ethernet. Any suggestions on a good gateway/firewall for Windows? Anyway, excluding the above and Homechoice, here's my shortlist of ISPs: Non-business (USB 500k) deal: Madasafish ? 40 / month incl VAT Freeserve ? 40 / month incl VAT BTOpenworld ? 40 / month incl VAT free connection Best business deals (ethernet 500k) are: Easynet ? 92.82 / month incl VAT Griffin ? 92.82 / month incl VAT Mistral ? 95.17 / month incl VAT My experience as an ADSL trialist was that it was great. Fast and reliable. Shame we moved house. My experience as a commercial ADSL user has been that service is slower and unreliable. all feedback gratefully received Gary >-- Gary Law, Systems Administrator, Sportev Ltd 39 - 43 Brewer St, W1R 3FD tel: +44 20 7734 3511 fax: +44 20 7287 0773 gary@sportev.com From David.Hall at coral.co.uk Mon Feb 12 17:02:52 2001 From: David.Hall at coral.co.uk (David Hall) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers Message-ID: >>> gary@sportev.com 02/12/01 04:44pm >>> >Asuming I don't go with the above, I'm going to need a Win98 machine to >manage the USB bit -- I cannot justify the extra ?50/month for ethernet. >Any suggestions on a good gateway/firewall for Windows? We use Checkpoint/Firewall -1 at work... it's pretty much the mutts nuts http://www.checkpoint.com/products/firewall-1/index.html Hope this helps Dave. -------------- next part -------------- z'??mj?Zr?????+???t??x6?????[?} References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: Dear all, two things... firstly I haven't heard anyone mention Mistral http://www.mistral.co.uk I had the service installed 6 months ago its a few squid more than others but top notch and they connected me in 6 days... when I last spoke to them I was offered second service for further 10% discount.. which sounds like they have some capacity..and some room to adjust the price. then I very recently had a conversation with a chap who assured me that there would be a very competitively priced sdml service rolling out in March.. and that CONSUMATES would be welcome..! more on that later....... easy James -- James Stevens 07973318881 <-------------------> 02086928019 http://bak.spc.org <-------------------> Founded 1996 Grounded 1999 http://diy.spc.org <-------------------> Founded 2000 http://rad.spc.org <-------------------> Founded 1998 http://consume.net "trip the loop, make your switch, consume the net" From nick at cassiel.com Mon Feb 12 17:25:15 2001 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> (message from Gary Law on Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:44:30 +0000) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <20010212172515.32545.qmail@cassiel.com> > Asuming I don't go with the above, I'm going to need a Win98 machine > to manage the USB bit -- I cannot justify the extra £50/month for > ethernet. Is the Windows restriction due to lack of good USB support in Linux (or FreeBSD or whatever), or are there issues to do with proprietary drivers? -- Nick Rothwell Cassiel.com Limited nick@cassiel.com www.cassiel.com systems - composition - installation - performance From David.Hall at coral.co.uk Mon Feb 12 17:29:37 2001 From: David.Hall at coral.co.uk (David Hall) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers Message-ID: >>> james@spc.org 02/12/01 04:15pm >>> >Dear all, >then I very recently had a conversation with a chap who assured me >that there would be a very competitively priced sdml service rolling >out in March.. and that CONSUMATES would be welcome..! more on that >later....... Sorry for asking... but what's SDML ? Cheers Dave. -------------- next part -------------- z'µìmjÛZržžÜ²Ç+¹¶ÞtÖ¦x6¯‰ÑÚ–[Ü}<©z×±·üoqªÝJ,ÞÛÝ›Ê׬ ëž‹Z½¨¥i¹^R¹a¶ÚþX¬¶Ç(žË¦zw­þ˜©z¹šŠ_Ü¢{.™êèºØ§ƒö­µ§!™éí³ý´Ó]6×oýó½מ «âtv¥–÷ From stephen at netality.com Mon Feb 12 17:43:03 2001 From: stephen at netality.com (Stephen Summerfield) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Law [mailto:gary@sportev.com] > Sent: 12 February 2001 16:45 > To: consume-routing@lists.consume.net > Subject: RE: [consume-routing] ADSL providers > > > just stumbled across this: > http://www.smaller-bills.co.uk/xDSL/applicationForm.html > apart from the worst website in the world, anyone ever heard of them? > Offering a COM port connection (like Homechoice - good for non-windows > intel ppl) but no technical details at all... (eg is it NATed? if > yes, for > me, it's useless..) Sounds like they are talking about Homechoice. > Asuming I don't go with the above, I'm going to need a Win98 machine to > manage the USB bit -- I cannot justify the extra ?50/month for ethernet. > Any suggestions on a good gateway/firewall for Windows? > > Anyway, excluding the above and Homechoice, here's my shortlist of ISPs: > Non-business (USB 500k) deal: > Madasafish ? 40 / month incl VAT > Freeserve ? 40 / month incl VAT > BTOpenworld ? 40 / month incl VAT free connection > > Best business deals (ethernet 500k) are: > Easynet ? 92.82 / month incl VAT > Griffin ? 92.82 / month incl VAT > Mistral ? 95.17 / month incl VAT > > My experience as an ADSL trialist was that it was great. Fast and > reliable. > Shame we moved house. > My experience as a commercial ADSL user has been that service is > slower and > unreliable. Have you considered a Cable modem? I've got BlueYonder on order mainly because it's presented on ethernet rather than USB (my gateway/router runs LINUX) plus it's cheaper than single user ADSL - I couldn't justify the cost of going for the ethernet version of ADSL either. Also they are talking about offering higher bandwidth versions in the future. Another benefit is that I don't have to lose my ISDN line or have an analogue line installed to get it. I want to keep ISDN as a decent backup for times when the broadband line/ISP stops working... Connection is 512/128Kbps so similar to single user ADSL and it costs 33GBP /month including VAT plus 50GBP install. S From steve-consume at gbnet.net Mon Feb 12 17:53:07 2001 From: steve-consume at gbnet.net (Steve Kennedy) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: ; from james@spc.org on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 05:15:00PM +0100 References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <20010212175307.K21454@ns.gbnet.net> On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 05:15:00PM +0100, James Stevens wrote: > two things... firstly I haven't heard anyone mention Mistral > http://www.mistral.co.uk I had the service installed 6 months ago its > a few squid more than others but top notch and they connected me in 6 > days... when I last spoke to them I was offered second service for > further 10% discount.. which sounds like they have some capacity..and > some room to adjust the price. And are up for sale ... > then I very recently had a conversation with a chap who assured me > that there would be a very competitively priced sdml service rolling > out in March.. and that CONSUMATES would be welcome..! more on that > later....... BT are trialling SDSL (maybe) in March. They have already selected ISPs to be on the trial ... Steve -- NetTek Ltd tel +44-(0)20 7483 1169 fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 Flat 2, 43 Howitt Road, Belsize Park, London NW3 4LU mobile 07775 755503 Epage steve-pager@gbnet.net [body only] From gary at sportev.com Mon Feb 12 18:13:06 2001 From: gary at sportev.com (Gary Law) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: <20010212172515.32545.qmail@cassiel.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> <5.0.2.1.0.20010212152430.00ab4660@192.168.0.1> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010212174432.00b0dbd0@192.168.0.1> At 17:25 12/02/2001, you wrote: > > Asuming I don't go with the above, I'm going to need a Win98 machine > > to manage the USB bit -- I cannot justify the extra ?50/month for > > ethernet. > >Is the Windows restriction due to lack of good USB support in Linux >(or FreeBSD or whatever), or are there issues to do with proprietary >drivers? there are no drivers for anything except some flavours of Windows (if they supported NT it would be a lot less bad). Mac drivers are finished (and in testing), Linux ones allegedly have been written by Alacatel, (but not been even tested by BT, and the conspiracy theorists think they're being stalled to encourage uptake of ethernet connections). But when the mac/linux drivers arrive, they won't be open source, which makes porting them to other OSes impossible. Which means for BSD (OBSD on intel or Mac OS X on PPC would be my first choices of OS) I think I could be waiting for hell to freeze over before my preferred OSes are supported... ...so, I might have to put a PC on a USB connection, route everything out of the ethernet and hope it doesn't get hacked. If it does, reinstall . But links to my home PC (and 'consume'rs) will be behind a proper firewall as well! if anyone can recommend good software for this purpose let me know. Finally, a quick check of our work connections and staff feedback reveals: FreeservePLUS unbelievably bad BTOpenworld good when it works Homechoice slow ping (bad for gamers) otherwise "not bad for ?20 a month". All have ADSL services have unavoidable web proxy servers which, users complain, breaks certain web sites. Gary -- Gary Law, Systems Administrator, Sportev Ltd 39 - 43 Brewer St, W1R 3FD tel: +44 20 7734 3511 fax: +44 20 7287 0773 gary@sportev.com From stephen at netality.com Mon Feb 12 18:11:18 2001 From: stephen at netality.com (Stephen Summerfield) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: [consume-routing] ADSL providers In-Reply-To: <20010212172515.32545.qmail@cassiel.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Rothwell [mailto:nick@cassiel.com] > Sent: 12 February 2001 17:25 > To: consume-routing@lists.consume.net > Subject: Re: [consume-routing] ADSL providers > > Is the Windows restriction due to lack of good USB support in Linux > (or FreeBSD or whatever), or are there issues to do with proprietary > drivers? It's a driver issue for the Alcatel USB Speedtouch USB device. Originally they seemed keen for an open source driver to be developed and donated a number of ADSL 'modems' to help in this respect - however they seem to have changed their minds... From ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au Thu Feb 22 01:32:11 2001 From: ryjkavik at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Kim=20Hawtin?=) Date: Sun Jan 19 18:24:07 2003 Subject: Existing routing setup? In-Reply-To: <20010207133821.27222.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010221143211.55734.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, I was wandering what is currently being used to route traffic on existing nodes? Has anyone setup nodes that use a internet-peer node to route traffic to other nodes? ie. ISP peer nodes in range } +A-------------+ { internet }-----+ edge router1 +---------{ wireless } +--------------+ { { +B----------------+ { | wireless router +------{ wireless +-----------------+ { { +C--------------+ { | wireless node +--------{ wireless +---------------+ { Such that the wireless nodes(C) traffic to the internet is routed by the wireless router(B) to the edge router(A). I remember someone had it setup that A was NATing B, and B was NATing C. This is nice and easy when there are a handful of nodes but when there are lots of nodes... its a lot of work... especially if there are serveral internet connections via edge routers like A. Yours, Kim _____________________________________________________________________________ http://invites.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Invites - Organise your Mardi Gras party online!